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jedibuttercupChallenge Response: Ten Visitors Arda Never Had (B:tVS/A:tS/LotR)
Title: Ten Visitors Arda Never Had
Author: Jedi Buttercup
Rating: PG to PG-13.
Category: B:tVS/A:tS/LotR
Summary: TtH #424, Transplanted Scoobies drabble challenge.
Disclaimer: All your Buffy are belong to Joss Whedon. All your Tolkien are belong to the Master and his estate.
Spoilers: B:tVS 7.22 "Chosen", A:tS 4.5 "Supersymmetry", A:tS 3.17 "Forgiving", B:tVS 2.22 "Becoming Part II", A:tS 4.1 "Deep Down", B:tVS 5.22 "The Gift", A:tS 3.22 "Tomorrow", the LOTR, and the Silmarillion
Notes: Jogging my muse back into gear! Several of my references may be obscure, especially to movie fans; check the afternotes at the bottom. My imagination got away from me trying to keep these somewhat original. *laughing* Let me know how I did?
Heavenmouth: First Stop, Valinor
Buffy Summers
Buffy ran up the stairs, tears in her eyes, as Spike's soul-light filled the crumbling cavern. She couldn't afford to break down now; she had to get out of the Hellmouth before--
The light flared brighter as the Slayer ran. Then the stairs disappeared beneath her.
Abruptly, Buffy found herself stumbling up a white beach, facing a strange green land in the clear light of sunrise. Shock immobilized her; then she gasped in recognition.
Heaven! Not hers, judging from the pointy-eared people approaching, but someone's; the ambient sense of peace was unmistakable.
She couldn't decide whether to laugh or cry.
Broken Symmetry: 10th Walker
Winifred Burkle
Fred thrashed in the grasp of the many-tentacled monster, trying to free herself as her boss and boyfriend battled it from below. It wasn't fair! Her first professional success after being freed from Pylea, and this had to interrupt it!
A dagger flew by-- was Wes here?-- and hit a thick neck; the monster jerked, pulling backward, and she screamed as it dragged her into its world.
The grip loosened abruptly and she fell onto a rocky beach, behind a line of ragged people also fighting it. "Not again," she moaned, then picked up a rock and moved to help.
When All Hope Has Failed
Wesley Wyndham-Price
So much research, scrying, searching, all in vain; every source, every reference said Quor Toth was unreachable. All but one. This little gold ring-- it looked so plain, despite all the legends of death and power and destruction associated with it.
Before the debacle with Connor, and his friends' accusations, he'd never have risked it. But what was left to lose?
We can bring him back, it whispered.
We can punish those that hurt us, it suggested.
We can make it so nothing bad ever happens to us again, it promised.
Yes, he answered, and slipped it onto his finger.
The Price of Arrogance
Kennedy
Kennedy fought gleefully, enjoying her new Slayerness as Turok-Hans fell before her. Even the arrival of the First did little to slow her down.
"Oh, I'm scared," she taunted. "You don't have any real power. You don't even have a body. I wish I'd been there when you did, so I could kick its ass!"
She was elsewhere before she realized her mistake, facing a new opponent. Before her stood a vast man-shape like a tower, iron-crowned; his vast shield, sable un-blazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud.
"Shit," she whispered.
Grond swung, and Kennedy was no more.
Relaxing Between Jobs
Whistler
Whistler looked up from his drink as a new patron entered the inter-dimensional bar, then smiled as he recognized a fellow meddler-in-the-Balance.
The old man appeared only human, but all the other species present gave him a wide berth as he moved to Whistler's booth. He wore a long coat and pointed hat as always, but his staff was not in evidence today.
"Gandalf," Whistler nodded in greeting, and signaled the bartender for another drink.
"Whistler, my old friend," Gandalf nodded, accepting it.
"What have you been up to lately?" the demon asked.
Gandalf sighed. "It all started in Bree..."
A Different Road to Recovery
Angel
The metal locker lay several months on the ocean's floor before it was discovered. The seas of the world were vast, and Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, retraced his steps infrequently.
Curious, then dismayed, the Vala lifted the object carefully and bore it to one who might better confront its maddened contents. He rose from the sea at the edge of Valinor in his accustomed form, dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green.
Olórin was waiting. "Another Champion gone astray," he sighed, after examining his new guest. "I'll do what I can."
Energy Given Form
Dawn Summers
Glory was gone; the Key no longer needed protection. Dawn Summers, grieving her sister's death, worried about what that meant; if her purpose here was gone, would the spell that had made her un-make her?
147 days after Glory's defeat, she was answered. The Slayer woke screaming in her grave, to a world that had forgotten why she'd jumped-- and in the Land of Shadow, Sauron paused in his secret work to register the presence of a strange, powerful spirit in the ether. He reacted swiftly, weaving many enchantments into the perfect golden trap.
Thus was the One Ring created.
Murphy's Law in Action
Andrew Wells
It had been years since Andrew had summoned anything non-human, but the guys he'd met at this Stargate convention were cool beyond words, and they'd begged for a demo.
Carefully, he pulled out his flute and got to work. He didn't know if you really could summon Elves, but it couldn't hurt to try, right?
All was going well-- portal open, energy moving-- when suddenly, the spell reversed. He barely had time to gasp before he found himself... elsewhere.
He'd found an Elf, all right. Tall, dark-haired, gorgeous, wearing a blue glowing ring... and boy, did he look pissed. Oops.
Same Job, Different Dimension
Cordelia Chase
Skip hadn't told her when he'd asked her to move on that her new job would be so boring. Sure, there were gorgeous Elves around to look at twenty-four seven, but she couldn't interact with them! No, she was stuck being Vision Girl again, long-term. At least here she got to project the visions in an Elf Lady's birdbath instead of Seeing them herself.
Cordelia sighed as Galadriel poured more water in, and a hobbit approached. Cute, but way short. He leaned over the basin, and--
Yowch. The Eye again. It had become a theme, lately; not a good sign.
Similarities and Differences
Faith
Faith adjusted the neckline of her gown uneasily as she rode. She still wasn't used to the clothes women wore here, and it had been six months since she landed in Elf-world. She'd felt really awkward in the El-man's sleepy valley; maybe things would go better for her in the more citified Lindon. Assuming the court manners or the language barrier didn't kill her first.
Or this famous warrior Elrond wanted her to meet. Glory, or whatever his name was. The dude twinkled every time he mentioned him. "Dagnir" this, "Dagnir" that, "much in common." What was with that, anyway?
Afternotes:
1. Valinor, the place Buffy stumbled into, is the Heavenly realm the Elves (plus Bilbo, Frodo, and Gandalf) sailed off toward from the Grey Havens at the end of "The Return of the King".
2. The being Kennedy encounters is Morgoth, literally the first evil in the Tolkien universe. He was Sauron's boss before he was cast out of the world, and caused the Elves much grief in the First Age. His description is plucked straight from "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin" in the Silmarillion; Grond was his weapon, the Hammer of the Underworld.
3. Ulmo is one of the more powerful Valar, the deity types of Middle-Earth. They live in Valinor. His description is from the "Valaquenta", in the Silmarillion. Olórin is the name Gandalf uses in Valinor; he is the wisest of the Maiar (the angelic class of beings).
4. The Elf that Andrew encounters is Elrond, of course. I know most people can't see Vilya (Elrond's Ring), but then again, most Men of Middle-Earth aren't magic-wielders of any kind, either.
5. Faith fell into the latter half of the Second Age, when Gil-Galad was still king in Lindon, but after Elrond had left that seaside realm to found Imladris (aka Rivendell). "Dagnir" means slayer or bane in Sindarin Elvish, which means Elrond is amusing himself comparing titles: Balrog Slayer vs. Vampire Slayer.
(This assumes, of course, that the LOTR Glorfindel is the same as the Glorfindel of Gondolin -- there are competing theories. But if they are one and the same, he'd have had to catch a ship back from Valinor at some point, and Elrond would have heard about it).
(x-posted to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
crossoverfic)
Title: Ten Visitors Arda Never Had
Author: Jedi Buttercup
Rating: PG to PG-13.
Category: B:tVS/A:tS/LotR
Summary: TtH #424, Transplanted Scoobies drabble challenge.
Disclaimer: All your Buffy are belong to Joss Whedon. All your Tolkien are belong to the Master and his estate.
Spoilers: B:tVS 7.22 "Chosen", A:tS 4.5 "Supersymmetry", A:tS 3.17 "Forgiving", B:tVS 2.22 "Becoming Part II", A:tS 4.1 "Deep Down", B:tVS 5.22 "The Gift", A:tS 3.22 "Tomorrow", the LOTR, and the Silmarillion
Notes: Jogging my muse back into gear! Several of my references may be obscure, especially to movie fans; check the afternotes at the bottom. My imagination got away from me trying to keep these somewhat original. *laughing* Let me know how I did?
Heavenmouth: First Stop, Valinor
Buffy Summers
Buffy ran up the stairs, tears in her eyes, as Spike's soul-light filled the crumbling cavern. She couldn't afford to break down now; she had to get out of the Hellmouth before--
The light flared brighter as the Slayer ran. Then the stairs disappeared beneath her.
Abruptly, Buffy found herself stumbling up a white beach, facing a strange green land in the clear light of sunrise. Shock immobilized her; then she gasped in recognition.
Heaven! Not hers, judging from the pointy-eared people approaching, but someone's; the ambient sense of peace was unmistakable.
She couldn't decide whether to laugh or cry.
Broken Symmetry: 10th Walker
Winifred Burkle
Fred thrashed in the grasp of the many-tentacled monster, trying to free herself as her boss and boyfriend battled it from below. It wasn't fair! Her first professional success after being freed from Pylea, and this had to interrupt it!
A dagger flew by-- was Wes here?-- and hit a thick neck; the monster jerked, pulling backward, and she screamed as it dragged her into its world.
The grip loosened abruptly and she fell onto a rocky beach, behind a line of ragged people also fighting it. "Not again," she moaned, then picked up a rock and moved to help.
When All Hope Has Failed
Wesley Wyndham-Price
So much research, scrying, searching, all in vain; every source, every reference said Quor Toth was unreachable. All but one. This little gold ring-- it looked so plain, despite all the legends of death and power and destruction associated with it.
Before the debacle with Connor, and his friends' accusations, he'd never have risked it. But what was left to lose?
We can bring him back, it whispered.
We can punish those that hurt us, it suggested.
We can make it so nothing bad ever happens to us again, it promised.
Yes, he answered, and slipped it onto his finger.
The Price of Arrogance
Kennedy
Kennedy fought gleefully, enjoying her new Slayerness as Turok-Hans fell before her. Even the arrival of the First did little to slow her down.
"Oh, I'm scared," she taunted. "You don't have any real power. You don't even have a body. I wish I'd been there when you did, so I could kick its ass!"
She was elsewhere before she realized her mistake, facing a new opponent. Before her stood a vast man-shape like a tower, iron-crowned; his vast shield, sable un-blazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud.
"Shit," she whispered.
Grond swung, and Kennedy was no more.
Relaxing Between Jobs
Whistler
Whistler looked up from his drink as a new patron entered the inter-dimensional bar, then smiled as he recognized a fellow meddler-in-the-Balance.
The old man appeared only human, but all the other species present gave him a wide berth as he moved to Whistler's booth. He wore a long coat and pointed hat as always, but his staff was not in evidence today.
"Gandalf," Whistler nodded in greeting, and signaled the bartender for another drink.
"Whistler, my old friend," Gandalf nodded, accepting it.
"What have you been up to lately?" the demon asked.
Gandalf sighed. "It all started in Bree..."
A Different Road to Recovery
Angel
The metal locker lay several months on the ocean's floor before it was discovered. The seas of the world were vast, and Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, retraced his steps infrequently.
Curious, then dismayed, the Vala lifted the object carefully and bore it to one who might better confront its maddened contents. He rose from the sea at the edge of Valinor in his accustomed form, dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green.
Olórin was waiting. "Another Champion gone astray," he sighed, after examining his new guest. "I'll do what I can."
Energy Given Form
Dawn Summers
Glory was gone; the Key no longer needed protection. Dawn Summers, grieving her sister's death, worried about what that meant; if her purpose here was gone, would the spell that had made her un-make her?
147 days after Glory's defeat, she was answered. The Slayer woke screaming in her grave, to a world that had forgotten why she'd jumped-- and in the Land of Shadow, Sauron paused in his secret work to register the presence of a strange, powerful spirit in the ether. He reacted swiftly, weaving many enchantments into the perfect golden trap.
Thus was the One Ring created.
Murphy's Law in Action
Andrew Wells
It had been years since Andrew had summoned anything non-human, but the guys he'd met at this Stargate convention were cool beyond words, and they'd begged for a demo.
Carefully, he pulled out his flute and got to work. He didn't know if you really could summon Elves, but it couldn't hurt to try, right?
All was going well-- portal open, energy moving-- when suddenly, the spell reversed. He barely had time to gasp before he found himself... elsewhere.
He'd found an Elf, all right. Tall, dark-haired, gorgeous, wearing a blue glowing ring... and boy, did he look pissed. Oops.
Same Job, Different Dimension
Cordelia Chase
Skip hadn't told her when he'd asked her to move on that her new job would be so boring. Sure, there were gorgeous Elves around to look at twenty-four seven, but she couldn't interact with them! No, she was stuck being Vision Girl again, long-term. At least here she got to project the visions in an Elf Lady's birdbath instead of Seeing them herself.
Cordelia sighed as Galadriel poured more water in, and a hobbit approached. Cute, but way short. He leaned over the basin, and--
Yowch. The Eye again. It had become a theme, lately; not a good sign.
Similarities and Differences
Faith
Faith adjusted the neckline of her gown uneasily as she rode. She still wasn't used to the clothes women wore here, and it had been six months since she landed in Elf-world. She'd felt really awkward in the El-man's sleepy valley; maybe things would go better for her in the more citified Lindon. Assuming the court manners or the language barrier didn't kill her first.
Or this famous warrior Elrond wanted her to meet. Glory, or whatever his name was. The dude twinkled every time he mentioned him. "Dagnir" this, "Dagnir" that, "much in common." What was with that, anyway?
Afternotes:
1. Valinor, the place Buffy stumbled into, is the Heavenly realm the Elves (plus Bilbo, Frodo, and Gandalf) sailed off toward from the Grey Havens at the end of "The Return of the King".
2. The being Kennedy encounters is Morgoth, literally the first evil in the Tolkien universe. He was Sauron's boss before he was cast out of the world, and caused the Elves much grief in the First Age. His description is plucked straight from "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin" in the Silmarillion; Grond was his weapon, the Hammer of the Underworld.
3. Ulmo is one of the more powerful Valar, the deity types of Middle-Earth. They live in Valinor. His description is from the "Valaquenta", in the Silmarillion. Olórin is the name Gandalf uses in Valinor; he is the wisest of the Maiar (the angelic class of beings).
4. The Elf that Andrew encounters is Elrond, of course. I know most people can't see Vilya (Elrond's Ring), but then again, most Men of Middle-Earth aren't magic-wielders of any kind, either.
5. Faith fell into the latter half of the Second Age, when Gil-Galad was still king in Lindon, but after Elrond had left that seaside realm to found Imladris (aka Rivendell). "Dagnir" means slayer or bane in Sindarin Elvish, which means Elrond is amusing himself comparing titles: Balrog Slayer vs. Vampire Slayer.
(This assumes, of course, that the LOTR Glorfindel is the same as the Glorfindel of Gondolin -- there are competing theories. But if they are one and the same, he'd have had to catch a ship back from Valinor at some point, and Elrond would have heard about it).
(x-posted to
crossoverfic)
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Dagnir
Date: 2005-01-26 06:31 pm (UTC)*LOL* That was cool, that was probably my favorite scenario. Way to bring The Great Enemy into the mix! Poor Kennedy. *grin*
Yowch. The Eye again. It had become a theme, lately; not a good sign.
That's a good line. I never watched Angel, so I never got to see what powers she developed. I've heard some stuff secondhand, but I have a hard time thinking of her as anything other than the spoiled rich girl from her high school days in Buffy.
Or this famous warrior Elrond wanted her to meet. Glory, or whatever his name was.
I tend to think that this Glorfindel of Rivendell is not the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin.
1.) Tolkien had absolutely no problem using names over again. Ecthelion is the elf who slew Gothmog in Gondolin; two stewards of Gondor were also named that. Denethor was the Steward of Gondor in The Return of the King; the king of the Green-elves was named the same. Heck, even Aragorn is actually Aragorn II! So, the name alone shouldn't assure identity.
2.) Within the curse of Mandos (Silmarillion 99), it is said the spirits of slain elves "shall then come to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that remain shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane..." This indicates that the Gondolinian elf wouldn't be able or (even if he was) inclined to return. The only ships that sailed from Valinor were at the very end of the First Age, to bring the host of the Valar over for the Great Battle. After that, there is no record of any elves (other than the coming of the Istari) returning to the shores of Middle-earth.
3.) Finrod Felagund, "fairest and most beloved of the house of Finwe," was killed by a werewolf in the dungeons of Tol-in_Gaurhoth (formerly Minas Tirith, another name reused elsewhere). On pg 213, Tolkien writes that "Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar." If any of the Elves could have returned to continue the fight or to reestablish his kingdom after the fall of Morgoth, I think it would be him. The fact that none of the princes of the Nolder, or Elu Thingol himself, return to Middle-earth indicates that it's a one-way trip. Thingol had the chance to go to Aman and returned to Middle-earth once; one would think he would do it again if able.
Re: Dagnir (#1)
Date: 2005-01-27 06:40 pm (UTC)Yeah, I got several comments on this one on other sites. *laughing*
>I never watched Angel, so I never got to see what powers she developed.
She inherited visions from another person who worked with Angel, when he died. Gradually, experiencing so much of other people's pain matured her; she was a strong, compassionate woman by the time she died on the show, though she never did quite lose that sharp cheerleader's tongue. Famous quote: "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass."
>I tend to think that this Glorfindel of Rivendell is not the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin.
Mm. I'd have to disagree with you. But I'll have to do so in a second post; I don't want to exceed the character limits. Watch out, I'm in full argument mode! =)
Re: Dagnir (#2)
Date: 2005-01-27 06:40 pm (UTC)I don't dispute this point. Legolas, for example, is also the name of a Gondolin elf, yet no one ever confuses him with Thranduil's son. But their descriptions were clearly different; Glorfindel, not so much.
>After that, there is no record of any elves (other than the coming of the Istari) returning to the shores of Middle-earth.
Maybe not in the Silmarillion itself. But Christopher Tolkien himself has said that isn't an authoritative work; he left much out or invented whole passages in order to bring something to publication, and regretted it later. Hence the publication of the "History of Middle Earth" series, containing ALL of JRRT's compiled notations, including his original intentions, unfinished or not, for most of the tales.
>Thingol had the chance to go to Aman and returned to Middle-earth once; one would think he would do it again if able.
Thingol wouldn't return without Melian, I don't think. And why would any of the others wish to go back when they'd lived hard lives and died horribly, and much of their families were still in Mandos or had sailed over? Remember, Finrod's wife did not go with him into exile to begin with; Amarie would be even less likely to follow him back for a second trip.
Even Glorfindel may not have wished to go; I don't find it unlikely that he could have been charged with continuing to protect the line of Turgon (as he did in the escape from Gondolin: the princess Idril, her husband Tuor, and their son Earendil), since that King's great-grandson (Elrond) would be such a huge influence all throughout the Second and Third Ages, a critical force in the overthrow of the Shadow.
Even leaving your points aside, though, just from the trilogy it's clear Glorfindel isn't just any elf. In the chapter "Many Meetings" Gandalf is explaining to Frodo how Glorfindel was able to glow so brightly: "...those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power." In other words, Glorfindel has been to Valinor, which means he was either with the very old elves who left Aman for ME in the Noldor rebellion, or else has come back by way of Mandos, or both. But even if you assume only #1, that would mean Glorfindel of Rivendell had lived at the same time as the Gondolin one, and Tolkien never used the same name for contemporary elves that I can tell.
More convincing, however, might be an essay published in the "Peoples of Middle Earth" volume from the HoME series, originally written by JRRT in 1972. In it, Tolkien declared that the two Glorfindels were in fact the same, and that Glorfindel would have had to come back in the Second Age since no elves could return by the sea route after Numenor was destroyed and the seas bent.
In the same essay is also explained more about Glorfindel's power; it's suggested that "as a reconstituted Elf he would have become closer to a Maia in power than any normal living Elf." Not just any elf could have scared off the Nazgul, or (as mentioned in the appendices) face off against the Witch-King of Angmar in full battle and give the prophecy about that being's downfall.
The reason a lot of people still believe they're two separate individuals is because Tolkien did not write that essay until after the trilogy was published, and because Christopher didn't make it public until so recently. So people decide to disregard it as "not authoritative".
Personally, I don't think it matters which you believe; I just find the evidence heavily on the "one elf" side, and I also think it makes his story that much more interesting to write about.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-13 03:05 pm (UTC)