BAH commentary...

[jedibuttercup]

No, not a new chapter. Sorry. For those of you who are reading, though, I'd like a little advice. I don't have a regular beta to bounce questions off of, so.

Here's a perfect example of the small number of negative reviews I've been getting (well, aside from those guessing close to what's up with Lupin, and informing me the story will utterly fail if it's true):

The following review has been submitted to: Back Again, Harry? Chapter: 11

Not Having Fun ()
--------

I dunno, your Harry goes back in time, and all he seems to want to is wait for time to pass by again.

That's very disappointing.

He's never, not in five chapters since hearing of it, talked to McGonagall or Flitwick about his parents. He's done nothing to improve his skills at anything except faking being a first year. He regularly spaces out, shows repeatedly that he has a glass jaw as concerns shocks (anything can surprise him and knock him out for hours), and...

Could you show him grow a brain or something? All he's done to this point is wander around stupidly, thinking over and over about what he should do, then ultimately doing nothing.

Oh, and he plays games and has fun. Like THAT'S going to accomplish anything useful! Palling around with Ron should be the LAST thing on his priority list!!

Hasn't he got new spells he ought to be learning? Things that Hermione is studying out of the junkpile could contain virtually anything, you know.

Could he be trying to REMOVE THAT HORCRUX from the diadem!?! It's not like he DOESN'T KNOW DEMENTORS DEVOUR SOULS! And they pull those souls out of people, to which souls are naturally attached by a natural magic superior to all humans weild.

Hidden life forces are not new to legends. Wicked sorcerers or demons are using them all of the time, and they all work on one simple principle - you can't kill them until you find where that life force is hidden. Once found, it is easily destroyed.

After all, even Harry knows a killing curse worked on one. Fiendfire on another. If there are spells he can cast to do it, then a dementor ought to serve as well, and those won't damage the valuable, magical artifact either.

Instead, he's been stumbling around like a brainless drunk.

Why is he always so concerned with TRIVIA all of the time!!?

"Hi All! I had a vision telling me where Voldemort is keeping his soul anchors. He's currently possessing Professor Quirrel, by the way. Anyhow, just get me an auror escort, two hours, and one trip to a bank vault to retrieve stolen property, and we'll solve this mess once and for all."

You paint him in a way that has him scared of his own shoes,and making the stupidest possible mistakes constantly, and worst of all, he's obsessed about what people think about him. He'd rather worry about what someone might suspect that solve those problems related to the war. It's maddening!

We've just spent NINE CHAPTERS working up to unveiling Wormtail when Harry could have grabbed him that first night, ran to McGonagall with a GOOD lie, and told her, "Hey, I was coming back to my room and this rat was a man, before he saw me and turned back into a rat again. Is that normal?"

I love some parts of your story. They are original and fun. It's just the way he is dragging his heels over solving problems, and then compounds them by behaving stupidly (he's not even studying ahead!) It's just...

It gets real frustrating knowing what he could do, then watching him sit on his ass playing chess when he could be getting some work done. That's all. I mean, people are only going to die if he messes up or flubs anything. You'd think he's want to improve his basic skills somewhat, rather than behave like an obsessive fangirl wondering if Snape likes him or not.

What I want to know is-- are any of you seeing legitimate concerns in that unsigned mess? I have a feeling that this is someone from DLP wishing for one of those stories where Harry drops in from the future and instantly becomes wickedly clever and confident and starts dashing around lying and manipulating and fixing everything as soon as possible.

I can bounce that kind of criticism, no problem. That is exactly the kind of story I was trying to subvert by writing mine: a realistic, as far as that can be said, edition of the genre. But: are there nuggets of true problems in there? Be honest; if things really are dragging, I want to fix it.
~

Comments

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

Where's he going to get a Dementor from? Does he have one in his back pocket, or something? A fair bit of this seems to be criticism of canon rather than of your fic, but that's only to be expected in this fandom.

To start with - part of what makes your story so fresh and interesting to me is that it isn't, as you say, about a dark and badass Harry returning from the future and casually manipulating and defeating all around him in a few months.

I just don't think your fic is what our critic is looking for - the counter-suggestions he makes are awful, just to reassure you - and it makes perfect sense that Harry would be focusing on having little bits of fun and slowly getting more skilled. This is because he's a character, rather than an empty avatar of badassitude - though I imagine this would be seen as a flaw to some.

The one point - perhaps - is that you haven't had Harry talk to McGonagall or Flitwick as Lupin advised, or even explained that he feels to nervous to do so, too much could go wrong, etc. It's not something I noticed myself until I archive-binged earlier today, and even then it didn't trouble me much. Maybe just have him mention that he'd meant to, but was nervous about the potential for something to go wrong, about accidentally breaking cover when in a casual setting with a perceptive adult?

I just kept getting stuck on the awfulness of the counter-suggestions - the "I just had a strange vision!" one, and the coming-up with a quick lie to catch Pettigrew one. They really are astonishingly stupid.

I think your real disadvantage is that you're trying to take the high road of subverting a trope without making it explicit that that's what you're doing - no attacks on the perceived weaknesses of the other type or whatever. So fans of the other type are just confused that you're not following the formula.

[jedibuttercup]

> A fair bit of this seems to be criticism of canon rather than of your fic, but that's only to be expected in this fandom.

Yep. Only to be expected in a lot of fandoms, I fear. I find accepting canon and finding ways to work within it a lot more satisfying than trying to punish it for not being perfect, but to each their own, I suppose.

> The one point - perhaps - is that you haven't had Harry talk to McGonagall or Flitwick as Lupin advised, or even explained that he feels to nervous to do so, too much could go wrong, etc.

I probably should have mentioned it again after that casual "maybe after I bring my grade up" conversation with Ron, you're right. He has been subconsciously avoiding it, for many reasons (authority issues in general, residue irritation for McGonagall not supporting him at times when he really needed her to in his other life, not really knowing Flitwick at all as he wasn't in the Order, nervousness about what could go wrong, etc.), but I'm not sure how best to (or whether I even should) articulate all those reasons in the context of the story. Regardless, he's scheduled to screw his courage up for it a chapter or two from now. =)

> I think your real disadvantage is that you're trying to take the high road of subverting a trope without making it explicit that that's what you're doing - no attacks on the perceived weaknesses of the other type or whatever. So fans of the other type are just confused that you're not following the formula.

You're probably right. Thank you; that makes me feel better.

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

Also, shouldn't you warn people about that link to DLP? I mean, I just innocently thought I'd skip over there, see what sort of thing they like...

My therapist has been instructed to send the bill to you.

[jedibuttercup]

Heeee.

Every once in a while I'm really in the mood for a "Harry conquers all" fic-- I consider it literary therapy-- but they do tend to form their own little extreme corner of fandom there.

[cubby-t-bear.livejournal.com]

I think you've got Harry right, as opposed to "evil genius warlord who spent too much time conquering his enemies at the head of a horde comes back in time."

After all, Harry was never that bright in the books, but he was always anxious over little things, willful, energetic, a good friend, etc. And he's just been dumped back into an environment he feels comfortable with -- so naturally he reverts, a little.

Everybody behaves according to expectations upon them, and everybody's expecting Harry to be a little kid. I think there are things where you revert a bit too much to "little Harry" instead of the 7th year Harry who went through much pain and solitude to the point where he gave himself up for sacrifice in order to save the lives of his friends -- but there are also good reasons why he'd want to put that in a box and forget it as much as he can.

I suspect there will be moments when that older Harry leaks through regardless -- not just in facts and knowledge, but also in attitude and realization. Way I see it, that Harry would be more compassionate, more understanding, more resolved -- but not more badass in the "I know 35 different superspells" -- Harry was never like that.

I think your Harry is much more plausible than the one that commenter suggests, and it'll be interesting to watch as he grows out of the comfortable shell that returning to the past has put him in.

[jedibuttercup]

Re: the reverting a bit; yes, there's a little of that consciously going into my characterization of Harry. He just basically committed suicide because two much older and more powerful men had locked his fate in stone before his second birthday. (I don't see Dumbledore as an evil manipulator, and I even believe that he did love Harry and believed he had no other choice than to act as he did, but DH broke me of my affection for him; I can't condone his methods).

Luckily, Harry accepted his fate repeatedly as each piece of it was revealed to him over the years, chose to go along with the final curtain-call, and even extended understanding and forgiveness; but I still feel like he'd be going through a period of "omgwtf I'm still here" relief in the aftermath of his unlikely reawakening before he truly pulls himself back together.

I'm glad the characterization is working for the readers; I've just been amazed by the response of 98% of the reviewership since I started it. I never expected my little what-if to be this popular, due to that very lack of Harry!Warlord!Sue. =)

[brendanm720.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think you're doing fine. The pacing is good, you've got Harry in character, doing things and changing things a little at a time. Besides, you always seem to have a plan, and quite frankly, it's your fic and you can take it any direction -- at any pace -- that you want.

The only thing that I agree with in that review is Harry could have gone to McGonagall and asked about his parents. She wouldn't have had any problems telling him a bit about them. (Though she probabaly would have downplayed the pranking.) Though, I don't think that you would be able to add much to that, now that Lupin's shown up.

[jedibuttercup]

> Personally, I think you're doing fine. The pacing is good, you've got Harry in character, doing things and changing things a little at a time. Besides, you always seem to have a plan, and quite frankly, it's your fic and you can take it any direction -- at any pace -- that you want.

Thanks for the encouragement. My plan's about half-outlined and half-waiting-for-inspiration, I'm afraid, but at least it's there, right? =) I was scared to approach this project without one, and it's paying off now that it's to the point where things are starting to actually move.

> The only thing that I agree with in that review is Harry could have gone to McGonagall and asked about his parents. She wouldn't have had any problems telling him a bit about them. (Though she probabaly would have downplayed the pranking.) Though, I don't think that you would be able to add much to that, now that Lupin's shown up.

McGonagall's still on the schedule, though you're right in that I probably should have mentioned it at least once in the last couple of chapters to note the delay. There is a rationale there, to do with Harry's hangups with adults in general and a couple of issues with McGonagall in specific. I just hope it holds up to scrutiny when I actually get around to writing their meeting. *grin* And I think she'll still be useful for a more adults'-eye view of Harry's parents; Lupin was definitely too much an accomplice to be objective, and Harry knows that by now.

[catherinecookmn.livejournal.com]

This is the difference between intelligence and wisdom. The reviewer writes like a thirteen-year-old who is clever for his or her age: There is some intelligence, but the wisdom has yet to kick in. They can use Spellcheck, but they don't have any Braincheck.

If this person can't figure out why Harry needs to do everything he can to avoid having people figure out that he's not the boy they think they know, then no amount of lecturing from us is going to help. Just let the little twerp alone.

[jedibuttercup]

*grin* Thanks!

The person that invented Braincheck would unfortunately not be filty rich, as it would stop an inordinate number of users in their tracks, but it would revolutionize the world...

[kerravonsen]

(commenting before I read the other comments, so I may be repeating what others said)

I have a feeling that this is someone from DLP wishing for one of those stories where Harry drops in from the future and instantly becomes wickedly clever and confident and starts dashing around lying and manipulating and fixing everything as soon as possible.

That's really what it sounds like to me. The critic is completely ignoring the legitimate concern of Harry's that any strange behaviour on his part is going to get him labelled as a Horcrux, and thus Harry must be cautious in what he does. Harry is already telling enough lies just to keep his cover; one more lie (such as one about Wormtail) could make the whole thing unravel. And I also like your characterisation of Harry here, that he's concerned about becoming manipulative like Dumbledore, which is another thing that the critic is completely ignoring.

As for the destruction of the Horcrux in the diadem, I think it's fair enough that Harry hasn't figured out how to do that, since I as a reader don't know how he's going to do it, so why should he?

True, he hasn't talked to McGonagall or Flitwick about his parents; I'd forgotten about that, and it would be nice to see, especially McGonagall's reaction.

It's untrue that "He's done nothing to improve his skills at anything except faking being a first year"; he's actually working hard at Potions. I suppose one could argue that his improvement at Transfiguration isn't something he's worked at, because it's a side-effect of stuff he's already learned in the future. I can't remember if he's better at Herbology this time around, what with his scheme to mask his knowledge with Neville's enthusiasm. (Oh I love that bit; bring on the Neville love!)

Most of the criticism is along the lines of "I can't be bothered to write my own story, but I want you to write it for me".

[jedibuttercup]

> Most of the criticism is along the lines of "I can't be bothered to write my own story, but I want you to write it for me".

I think you're probably right.

Sometimes I want to bludgeon the readers with spaghetti noodles for not realizing that Harry not knowing what he's going to do yet has no bearing on whether the author knows. I know exactly how Harry's going to kill the Horcruxes, and the misfires he'll make (because he's human) before he hits upon a useful solution.

Poor kid, he's still subconsciously staggering in this story from the events of his 7th year (which ended, from his perspective, in his own suicide!) and was never capable of 100% focus on his schoolwork in the first place. But he's improving, and will improve further. I enjoy writing him.

I'm glad to finally be getting to Lupin, and I'm not abandoning the Snape thread because of him, either; hopefully I'll be able to keep both IC and satisfactory for the readers. And more Neville soon, too, though I'm not sure I'll get to his next cameo before the upcoming Quidditch match. =)

The McGonagall meeting-- I should have mentioned it again at least once, you're right, but that still is on the schedule, and there's reasons he's hesitating. Flitwick, I'm not sure yet? I have cognitive dissonance issues reading him in the books and then seeing his characterization in the movies, and there's not much material to work with for him, anyway.

[dunv-i.livejournal.com]

I see no problem. For one thing, you even addressed this sort of thing directly: "he couldn't afford to poke at people with his extra knowledge just to see how they'd react" (chapter 1).

You're keeping one of the main reasons I really love HP - the ways Harry reacts, even when they drive me mad because they're annoying (you could have done this, you should have done that), Harry acts much more realistically than many authors would have.

Unfortunately, many fic writers tend to fall into the trap that I mentioned above - what if Harry was instinctive and witty in a way that he never was portrayed in the books. You aren't - your story is Harry going back to try and fix things, not a re-write of the original books with a completely different main character.

Um. so no. I see no reason to be concerned.

sorry for any typos - I'm not used to mac keyboards at all

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

Fie, I say. (quite a bit, I think)

FFers are too addicted to ADD-style reading... if your story can't be told in 200 words, it's 'slow'.

Meh.

But, seriously, why even let DLP stain your collar? From even just a little browsing, that's an acidic, angry bunch.

[ignavus.livejournal.com]

You didn't ask, "What if Harry grew a giant, polished, stainless steel pair and knew everything," you asked, "What if Harry's consciousness, at the end of the series, was somehow transported back to his first year of school?"

One of the reasons I don't write stories based on the random ideas I have from time to time... My response to a critique like is quite literally the following:

*read* *read* *re*... "WTF? This is useless." {delete feedback}