Fandom Bullshit

[jedibuttercup]

*shaking head* You know, the reviews for backagainharry over at The Pit of Voles-- and the review thread at the Dark Lord Potter Forums (which has at least increased my readership, though I find it baffling that they reviewed it at all given their biases)-- have pretty much transcended annoyance now and reached the realm of an interesting sociological study.

It's fascinating to me how many people judge me as a writer based solely on this one story, less than thirty thousand words out of more than half a million in my complete body of work. And then they make assumptions that the story's going to be "just another canon-humper" based solely on the chapters available to view. Because they want instant gratification, and all this setting-the-scene shit is much too boring for them to tolerate, and makes Harry too "wimpy" for their tastes. Gee, should I apologize for trying to make it realistic?

I greatly appreciate the other sort of reviewer, many of whom read here on LJ, who have bothered to tell me what I'm doing right, and give me the benefit of the doubt as to what I have planned. You keep me going on this. But I don't think I'm going to attempt any more longfic in the Harry Potter universe after I'm done with it. And I'll probably even end BAH at a decent pausing point in the action sometime during the summer or the beginning of second year and leave the universe fallow a good long while. At least in the crossover (and small-fandom) realms, people usually at least assume that I'm intelligent and creative; it's a much more energizing atmosphere to write in.
~

Comments

[beatrice_otter]

Well, from my point of view, you're getting whole review threads. This means that at least that many people are reading your work. As someone who often gets no reviews at all? I'd just sit back and enjoy the knowledge that my stuff was being read. YMMV.

I really do hope you complete BAH rather than just finding a logical stopping point; I've enjoyed it quite a bit so far.

[jedibuttercup]

> As someone who often gets no reviews at all? I'd just sit back and enjoy the knowledge that my stuff was being read. YMMV.

True. A couple of years ago, that would probably have been my first reaction. I guess after five and a half years, my perceptions have shifted a bit; the newness of people reccing me has worn off. I probably should be more optimistic about it, though, you're right.

> I really do hope you complete BAH rather than just finding a logical stopping point; I've enjoyed it quite a bit so far.

I'll finish it, never fear. I'll probably pause it a bit, though, to take a breather and recover. =)

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

I know that my lack of reviews for stuff is a serious moral failing of mine - I'm generally a very quiet person. I mean, mostly, I can't really think of anything to say. I really do love your story, and I seriously hope that you don't let the lunatics get you down... I mean, I looked at some of your reviews on the Pit... some guy responds to your story with what is essentially an anti-Dumbledore essay? Ugh. This fandom, it is mad.

Seriously though... your fic is like nothing else anywhere. Almost all other fics remotely like it just use the premise as one of the many available excuses to GodMod Harry (the other main excuses being 'framed and stuck in Azkaban' and 'discovers letter from parents'; or crossover 'is trained by L33T warrior from another fandom'). I really can't understand why people are criticising your fic for not being exactly like the formula model.

So consider this a general review... Back Again Harry is an intelligent and moving exploration of both its concept and its canon, a series of quiet joys. Reading it makes me fall in love with these characters all over again; the relationship between the trio is a thing of wonder, and especially Harry - neither entirely PS!Harry or DH!Harry, but some combination of the two. And sorry for not reviewing every chapter.

But... give you 'the benefit of the doubt'? I don't need to. There is no doubt.

[jedibuttercup]

Thank you for your review, and encouragement! This was a very up-lifting comment to read.

I really don't understand why I'm being criticized for no originality, either. I guess what they really mean is, Harry's not proactive enough for their tastes? But then, I gather a lot of people think she "broke" her own series after GOF, or OOTP at the least, and that I'm trying to "fix" it. I'm not; I'm just exploring a different path with the same canon characters, whom I'm also quite fond of already. =)

Thanks again!

[lt-kitty.livejournal.com]

Generally speaking, I've noticed that the larger and more popular a fandom - and the larger the fanfic forum - the greater the number of immature and demanding fanbrats who insist you write your fic their way. So I wouldn't be suprised that the reviews outside of your LJ and your personal website are bit whiny.

For the record, I don't read much HP fanfic - I generally avoid book based fanfic, just a personal preference - but the HP fandom is quite possibly the most frightening and wanktastic fandom out there.

[jedibuttercup]

Yeah. I probably should have known better than to dip a toe in; but I had An Idea, and-- well.

I can deal with the idiotic or plain mean-spirited reviews. But I'm finding the ones calling me boring and unoriginal and uninspired and etcetera a little harder to take than I expected. It sucks the energy right out of me, and makes it less fun to write.

I guess I'll chalk this up to a learning experience-- and the unexpected recurrence of an old self-esteem problem regarding my writing abilities.

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

Just think of it this way:

What do most critics say about Steven King?
-- They loathe him.

And the dude sells more books than just about anyone else in his field.

Why? Because those who choose to critique are rarely enough actually qualified to do so.

And hell... fiction is supposed to entertain, inspire, and speak the heart of the author.

If people are responding, it's doing its job.

If people are critiquing and resorting to words like "boring and unoriginal and uninspired and etcetera" just means you're doing it /well/... because those words don't come out except from those who are jealous.

Period. A piece that is truly all of those things will also have far more wrong with it that they can point out.

[kerravonsen]

If people are critiquing and resorting to words like "boring and unoriginal and uninspired and etcetera" just means you're doing it /well/... because those words don't come out except from those who are jealous.

Weeeellll... as someone who has been accused of being "jealous" because of negative reviews I've given on my Net-Fic reviews page, I don't buy that argument. Sorry, I just had to speak up in my own defence.

Personally, I would say that the "boring..." etc complaint isn't that they're jealous, it's that they have bad taste.

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

But, see... there's a difference between a negative review -- which even I have been known to give on occasion, and the sort of negative reviews she's giving, that I'm referring to here.

Because again, if a poor fic honestly fits under the given descriptors of boring, unimaginative, unoriginal, uninspired, or the like, then there will be other things wrong with it as well.

The point was that if the reviewer can't find anything else to say, they're merely lashing out at the writer -- often due to a feeling of inadequacy.

After all, if a story is merely 'boring', that's not necessarily the story. For instance: I found the Great Gatsby incredibly boring. I didn't enjoy it. It still was a well-written story. If all I can say is that it's boring, to give it a bad review on that lack of merit alone is to attack the piece based on my own inability to connect with it.

My ability. Not the book. The negative is mine.

On the other hand, I can take a look at the works of Robert Jordan, who became well known for forgetting his own plot hooks, leaving massive holes in his narrative. Or Steven King's love affair with the simile. Those can be pointed out as actual criticisms...

Specifically responding to you, I went through several pages of your reviews... and you actually give a 'why'... not just some random 'boring'. So I'd say it doesn't seem to pertain to you. :)

[kerravonsen]

My ability. Not the book. The negative is mine.

Well, I think that's being too negative on yourself!
(a) you still recognised is as a well-written story, even though it bored you
(b) just because something bores you doesn't mean there's something wrong with you!

However, you're right in that there's a difference between saying "I was bored, so this story is crap" and "I was bored, so this isn't the kind of story I enjoy". The first is judgemental, the second is a declaration of what one's taste is.

Specifically responding to you, I went through several pages of your reviews... and you actually give a 'why'... not just some random 'boring'. So I'd say it doesn't seem to pertain to you.

Thanks.

[kerravonsen]

No pleeeeeeeese! Don't give up!

Personally, I would say that the lesson to be learned is not "don't write long HP fic" but "don't ever post at the Pit of Voles".

[jedibuttercup]

I won't give up on this story, at least, don't worry.

I don't think it's the idiotic or mean-spirited or plain biased reviews that are getting to me: it's the ones calling me boring, uninspired, unoriginal, etc. I guess I still have a secret fear of Not Being Good Enough that's resonating unpleasantly with the criticism and sucking the joy out of the story for me.

Maybe that'll wear off by the time I'm done with BAH? =)

[kerravonsen]

it's the ones calling me boring, uninspired, unoriginal, etc.

Boring: they're complaining because it isn't SHORT, and thus the pace is too slow for them. Ignore them.

Uninspired/Unoriginal: they're complaining because you're sticking to canon. They are nuts. Ignore them.

ALSO, hold this to your heart, something one of my fandom gurus said to me: "There's no such thing as an original idea, only an original treatment." I find that very freeing. They're probably saying it's unoriginal because time-travel AUs have been written before -- but that doesn't matter because there's no such thing as an original idea, only an original treatment. And you are always going to be giving something an original treatment, because you'd bore yourself if you didn't. So there.

[jedibuttercup]

> "There's no such thing as an original idea, only an original treatment." I find that very freeing.

True. I hadn't thought of it in quite those terms.

> And you are always going to be giving something an original treatment, because you'd bore yourself if you didn't. So there.

*grin* Very true, too. Poster child for ADD in that area: I don't do boring.

I was going to say

[anabels.livejournal.com]

Pretty please keep going till you reach the end of the story as you planned it. I am fascinated by your take on teh characters and the way you are handling the time paradox stuff. I might have used the "this Harry remembers the time-turner lessons" to shut some of the critics up but it is your story!

If you don't feel like dealing with teh trolls pretty please will post here so those of us who are loving it but are too disorganised to say so most of the time can enjoy. Pretty please.

But always as you see fit

Re: I was going to say

[jedibuttercup]

I won't give up on BAH, don't worry. I still have plenty of ideas for it. I may take a breather, though, to regain my energy once I get to the end of first year. (That'll be a ways off, though. This is going to be a long story).

I'm glad you're enjoying it!

[fufumira.livejournal.com]

Since the Pit boasts quantity over quality and is full to the brim of in-duh-viduals that have not one wit of common sense between them, they at least should be in the pile of 'not expected to recall that Oxygen is for breathing' and thusly ignored. BAH is fabulous. I get a sense of glee when I see it on my flist. Please keep up the amazing work.

[jedibuttercup]

Thank you for your encouraging comments. =)

I'll get used to the trolls eventually, I suppose. I'm just finding them a bit dispiriting right now.

[fufumira.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hear that, but it's important not to let the trolls in life win, because sadly the poor of mind are always with us. It's a good story. They're full of hot air and not much else!

[brendanm720.livejournal.com]

I should also probably mention that the HP fandom base has a limited number of intelligent readers (and even fewer intelligent writers), which is problematic for most of us who post Potter!Fic in any forum. The fact that the fandom seems to be populated by 11 year old girls* may explain your experience, as well.

As for the fic, I'm with pretty much everyone here when I say that I'd like to see it completed. You really don't need to post it up on the pit of evil. LJ will be fine... Promise. :D

[jedibuttercup]

I'd have to agree with you about the 11 year old girls. Except for DLP, where that one review thread is; they seem to mostly be teenage boys. Which I'm guessing is why they find the story lacking in testosterone? *blinks*

Anyway, thanks for the encouraging comments. =)

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

"just another canon-humper"

That's something about fandom I just don't get... and a major reason why I don't do fanfic myself. Somehow, sticking to canon, even when dealing with an AU, is a /feat/, not something to be reviled.

Granted, you're right on track with the instant gratification BS that also works there, and at least /that/ makes sense to me. It's dumb... but I can get a handle on that.

But how can people be pissy about actually bothering to /keep/ to canon?

[catherinecookmn.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I wonder what they really objected to, that they're hiding under that term.

I think they're just being dorks and trying to mess with JB's head. If they can get her to quit writing, they'll probably all prance around giggling.

[jedibuttercup]

Back out of the fandom for awhile, maybe, after I finish the story. But I've written in more than 67 fandoms (mostly crossovers, granted) and this is the first time I've faced this extent of negative response; I'd never quit writing entirely.

[jedibuttercup]

> But how can people be pissy about actually bothering to /keep/ to canon?

I'm guessing, they're of the crowd that believes JKR "broke" her own universe after GOF/OOTP/HBP, and that it needs fixing?

Whereas I tend to grab onto all of canon, and use it to inform whatever wild flight of fancy has most recently stuck in my head? That's the biggest fun of crossovers for me, actually: finding ways to work the two canons together so that people go, "Oh, that makes sense!" and not "WTF?"

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing, they're of the crowd that believes JKR "broke" her own universe after GOF/OOTP/HBP, and that it needs fixing?

God forbid an author go a direction they didn't already figure out. I've always hated that. Even Robert Jordan, he with the textual vomit, can't /break/ something he's creating. :)

That's the biggest fun of crossovers for me, actually: finding ways to work the two canons together so that people go, "Oh, that makes sense!" and not "WTF?"

Actually... I typically go WTF at crossovers, but that's more because it's not my milieu. :)

[jedibuttercup]

> God forbid an author go a direction they didn't already figure out. I've always hated that. Even Robert Jordan, he with the textual vomit, can't /break/ something he's creating. :)

I made it through Book #7 of the Wheel of Time when I was at Fox. Each book sapped a little more of my enthusiasm to continue; I couldn't stomach the thought of having to reread them all next time a new one came out, so I decided I'd wait until the series was finished to pick them back up....

[jdsmith-gfu.livejournal.com]

I made it through Book #7 of the Wheel of Time when I was at Fox. Each book sapped a little more of my enthusiasm to continue; I couldn't stomach the thought of having to reread them all next time a new one came out, so I decided I'd wait until the series was finished to pick them back up....

I truly hope you've given up waiting, then... what with him being...

well...

not exactly undead.

Now there's a thought. Active posthumous writers.

I'm scared now. :)

[jedibuttercup]

Well, he won't be writing posthumously, but someone else is supposed to be picking up the series:

News Story Here @ CNN

So I guess I'm still waiting. =)

[catherinecookmn.livejournal.com]

Ignore them, JB. Just ignore them.

In the final analysis, you should write just for you and you alone. If you're the only one who's happy with it, that's perfectly OK, because you're the only one you need to please.

Although, if you must allow yourself to be influenced by what other people say: PLEASE DON'T STOP WRITING THIS OR ANY OTHER HP LONGFIC!

Ahem. Thank you. :-)

[jedibuttercup]

> In the final analysis, you should write just for you and you alone. If you're the only one who's happy with it, that's perfectly OK, because you're the only one you need to please.

In principle, I agree with you. In practice, I get a lot of my energy and drive to continue from other people's reactions. It's not so much an issue when I'm writing shortfic, but I have ADHD; energy is key in keeping me going for long stuff. I just have to figure out how to find the amusing side to all this crud going on, I guess.

Thanks for the encouraging remarks. =)

[catherinecookmn.livejournal.com]

Hey, if you want we can feed you plot bunnies. (Besides, if you can just hold out till Harry's second year, you get to have Luna Lovegood to play with! Luna's a sure-fire plot and author energizer.)

[flingslass.livejournal.com]

DON'T let them get to you. I don't like HP which is why I haven't read BAH but I like your other stuff and crossovers are my favourite.
I admire anyone who has the courage and the faith in themselves to write ANYTHING. An old movie reviewer in Melbourne by the name of Ivan Hutchinson (sadly gone to the great movie review place in the sky) always said "I may not like this but some of you might"
I just can't see the point in reviewing something if all you want to do is pick s..t out of it and who are they to judge.

[jedibuttercup]

> "I may not like this but some of you might"

That sort of commentary seems to be rarer than gold these days, in the midst of the "Me-Me-Me" era.

Thanks for the quote, and the encouragement. =)

[flingslass.livejournal.com]

No worries.

Don't have LJ but had to add...

[(Anonymous)]

Please don't give up! I know that flames can sap the hardiest soul, but the 12 year old girls are running away now that the fandom is "done" right? Or is that just because I've only gotten back in shallowly...? Well, either way- anyone who says this story is unoriginal or bad in any way is... well... nuts! I mean, you've got perhaps the best spin on time travel. Ever.

When I read the prologue I literally said "Thank you!" The situation was screaming to be written... it HAD to be written and you've done it so beautifully. (And as a testament to how awesome you are- it wasn't until I read it that I went- oh DOH! of course that would be possible! I was going to go another route with the Hallows thing, but this is even *better*) Someone had to do something about the power (essentially) of death itself- totally not covered enough in canon! You did it exquisitely. I guess I'm gushing, but it's pretty close to the perfect fanfic.

Plus as an added bonus- you don't have to guess anymore and there's never going to be new info, so you get to view the whole thing and make pertinent comments about the medium. That's what fanfic is all about, right?

You obviously know the fandom really well and the fact it is so adherent to canon is what makes it so brilliant. Tell me who these people are and where this "pit" is you speak of and I will rip their critiques to such threads they won't even be able to think. (Imagine a glare, here...) Anyone who saps your enthusiasm is a direct enemy to my happiness- I take that seriously. ;)

Ok- I can wait years for updates. Certainly seems like I've been waiting my whole life for Mirror of Maybe to update (more like 7 years... but that's ok, there's been 1 chappy and a sideline in that time... *sigh*) but honestly, I think I may like this one better. Which is saying a lot, I love that story. (Have you read? Very good... rather slashy. But actually converts males into slash for brief insane periods because it's just that good... happened to my cousin, no lie).

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent... I just wanted to say how much I look forward to another chapter and how much what you've already written has inspired me.

ok
/cheese off

might need a
/fangirl off
, too- one can never tell I suppose...

Deritine

(I reviewed your story on that crossover site place, too. Someone linked you on a Yahoo group or I never would have found this gem.)