Boondock Speculation
Apr. 23rd, 2006 01:26 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedibuttercupWas doing a bit of research on "Boondock Saints" to write one of the drabbles, and came across some interesting information.
You know that phrase that reads out in Il Duce's voice when the MacManus boys wake up from their joint vision in the holding cell? This is how it goes:
"Whosoever shed man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man".
It's actually a Bible verse: Genesis 9:6. (I can't find an exact translation match, but it's closest to the KJV). It made me curious, so I looked up a sermon or two on "The Use of Force" on the Internet, and came across another that could equally well have been used: "Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it." (Numbers 35:33, NIV).
Come to find out, these verses-- and several others-- are used in support of the death penalty all the time. The same sources where I found these verses linked together, also suggest that the "Thou Shalt Not Murder" commandment speaks specifically to the shedding of innocent blood, a connotation that gets lost in translation to English, and which would exclude the sort of violence the MacManus brothers participate in.
Something else interesting: that scene where they go into the armory to trade what they found on the Russian mobsters for other weaponry? There's an Irish flag painted on the wall, and above it the following phrase:
"While the wicked stand confounded,
call me, with they saints surrounded."
A quick google turned up this page on all soul's day mass. That quote is a pair of lines from the Dies Irae sequence.
Stuff to make you go Hmm. "Boondock Saints", I think, is a lot like "V for Vendetta" in a few respects; it's aimed to make you think about the justification, or lack thereof, for the use of force in certain circumstances, though this movie packs a religious angle and the other is aimed more at political revolution.
I'm a big fan of that (the making-you-think thing); what good is it to believe blindly in something? If you never question, if you are never forced to look at the "why's" of your stance on something and either make it more firm on that basis or change it to another, then when something comes along that seriously challenges that belief, what will you be left with?
~
You know that phrase that reads out in Il Duce's voice when the MacManus boys wake up from their joint vision in the holding cell? This is how it goes:
"Whosoever shed man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man".
It's actually a Bible verse: Genesis 9:6. (I can't find an exact translation match, but it's closest to the KJV). It made me curious, so I looked up a sermon or two on "The Use of Force" on the Internet, and came across another that could equally well have been used: "Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it." (Numbers 35:33, NIV).
Come to find out, these verses-- and several others-- are used in support of the death penalty all the time. The same sources where I found these verses linked together, also suggest that the "Thou Shalt Not Murder" commandment speaks specifically to the shedding of innocent blood, a connotation that gets lost in translation to English, and which would exclude the sort of violence the MacManus brothers participate in.
Something else interesting: that scene where they go into the armory to trade what they found on the Russian mobsters for other weaponry? There's an Irish flag painted on the wall, and above it the following phrase:
"While the wicked stand confounded,
call me, with they saints surrounded."
A quick google turned up this page on all soul's day mass. That quote is a pair of lines from the Dies Irae sequence.
Stuff to make you go Hmm. "Boondock Saints", I think, is a lot like "V for Vendetta" in a few respects; it's aimed to make you think about the justification, or lack thereof, for the use of force in certain circumstances, though this movie packs a religious angle and the other is aimed more at political revolution.
I'm a big fan of that (the making-you-think thing); what good is it to believe blindly in something? If you never question, if you are never forced to look at the "why's" of your stance on something and either make it more firm on that basis or change it to another, then when something comes along that seriously challenges that belief, what will you be left with?
~
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no subject
Date: 2006-04-23 05:32 am (UTC)Action movies with some *thinking* to them are a rare breed. Prolly why I fell for this movie in the first place and since I've finally gotten a copy of my own the muses are picking at me badly about the twins.
Boondock does have a lot of little bits slipped in that when you catch them make you stop and think a second or so. I knew that Il Duce's voice in the holding cell scene was a Genesis verse though not which.
Thou Shalt Not Kill and Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder are used interchangeably for the commandment but look at the biblical wars, the Plague of the First Born in Egypt (okay that's before the Commandments still...) go on to say the battle of Jericho, David and Goliath...does make you wonder what the original connotation was when you start connecting things up. Thou Shall not Kill pretty much encompasses anyone, any time any reason, war, self-defense...Thou Shalt Not Commit Murder is a lot farther open to interpretation.
Still you want a religious justification for just about anything. You'll find a passage somewhere that could be bent just enough to fit if you can't find one outright.
no subject
Date: 2006-04-23 11:23 pm (UTC)Yes. I have a real issue with people pulling snippets of verse out to back themselves up, completely ignoring the Biblical context. And personally, I believe that a lot of the Old Testament rules were intended to be wiped out by the New Covenant; my head hurts too much right now to remember the verses on that.
Still, it's very interesting. In a world where the Old Testament God still held sway, the Saints very well might be justified in what they do, provided their mandate did come from above.
Something else I blinked about when I rewatched it last night-- did you notice, in the scenes where the twins are shooting, Murphy holds the weapon in his right hand, and Connor in his left? Traditionally, the "Right Hand of God" refers to God in his Justice aspect... and it's Murphy with the Aequitas (Justice) tattoo on his gun hand.
The more I watch this movie, the deeper the layers get, and I'm not sure all of them were intentional.
> Action movies with some *thinking* to them are a rare breed. Prolly why I fell for this movie in the first place and since I've finally gotten a copy of my own the muses are picking at me badly about the twins.
Well, I'll read whatever you write about them. =)
I completely agree with you about thinking action movies. A lot of my favorites are that way; I pick up new things every time I rewatch them. "Serenity" is actually one of those; I'm almost glad Joss won't have the chance to make more in that universe, as he'd be almost certain to mess it up if he did.
no subject
Date: 2006-04-24 06:02 pm (UTC)the more I watch this movie, the deeper the layers get, and I'm not sure all of them were intentional
I think probably half or less were intentional and the rest sort of fell into place by accident in a way that works. If it had all been intentional the movie probably would have come across as boring pretentious crap with guns.
The tats/gun hands as far as Murphy's Aequitas could be intentional or could be Norman Reedus is right handed and Sean Patrick Flanery left handed so that's what they went with and it worked on more levels than intended. Either's as likely.
I'm almost glad Joss won't have the chance to make more in that universe, as he'd be almost certain to mess it up if he did
*laughs* totally agree. Firefly/Serenity ending while it was ahead is a very good thing as much as I have fallen for that verse as well I have too many want to reach through the screen and throttle someone moments with later seasons of Buffy to really want to know what he might have done with Firefly.